Then venerable Subhūti asked the Lord, “Lord, if those dharmas are the bodhisattva dharmas, well then, Lord, what are the buddhadharmas?”

The Lord replied, “Again, Subhūti, in regard to what you have asked—‘If those dharmas are the bodhisattva dharmas what, then, are the buddhadharmas?’—Subhūti, just those bodhisattva dharmas are the buddhadharmas as well. When bodhisattva great beings have completely awakened to those dharmas in all aspects and have reached the knowledge of all aspects, they eliminate all the residual impression connections. They will fully awaken to those, but tathāgatas, worthy ones, perfectly complete buddhas have fully awakened to all dharmas through the wisdom of the unique single instant. That, Subhūti, is the difference between bodhisattva great beings and the tathāgatas, worthy ones, perfectly complete buddhas.

“To illustrate, Subhūti, even though a candidate is one thing and a result-recipient another, still both are not not the highest person. Similarly, Subhūti, bodhisattva great beings stand on the unobstructed path, but tathāgatas, worthy ones, perfectly complete buddhas have reached a knowledge of all dharmas without obscurations. That, Subhūti, is the difference between bodhisattva great beings and tathāgatas, worthy ones, perfectly complete buddhas.”

The Lord having said that, venerable Subhūti inquired further of him, “Lord, if all dharmas are empty of their own marks, how can you apprehend specific features in all dharmas that are empty of their own marks and make the distinctions, ‘This is a being in hell, this is one in the animal world, this is one in the world of Yama, this is a god, this is a human, this one is on the Gotra level, this one is an Aṣṭamaka, this is a stream enterer, this is a once-returner, this is a non-returner, this is a worthy one, this is a pratyekabuddha, this is a bodhisattva, and this is a tathāgata, worthy one, perfect complete buddha’? Lord, just as those persons cannot be apprehended, so too karma cannot be apprehended, and just as karma cannot be apprehended, so too the maturation cannot be apprehended either.”

Venerable Subhūti having asked that, the Lord said to him, “Exactly so, Subhūti, exactly so! It is exactly as you say! Karma and the maturation of karma cannot be apprehended in all dharmas that are empty of their own marks. Those who do not understand that all dharmas are empty of their own marks behave badly or behave well, or accumulate karma with outflows or without outflows. Through the karma from behaving badly they fall into the three terrible forms of life; through the karma from behaving well they are born among gods and humans; through wholesome karma without flaws they are born in the form realm and the formless realm. There the bodhisattva great beings practice the perfection of giving, up to practice the eighteen distinct attributes of a buddha, producing those bodhisattva dharmas in a practice without flaws. Having produced them, they become absorbed in the vajropama meditative stabilization endowed with the surrounding limbs of awakening, and fully awaken to unsurpassed, perfect, complete awakening. Having fully awakened to unsurpassed, perfect, complete awakening, they work for the welfare of beings. Because they have worked for their welfare they are not lost, and because they are not lost, they do not from then on take birth in the five forms of life in saṃsāra.”

The Lord having said that, venerable Subhūti asked him, “Lord, does the Lord, having fully awakened to unsurpassed, perfect, complete awakening, apprehend the five forms of life in saṃsāra?”

“No, Subhūti.”

“Lord, does a tathāgata apprehend bright, or dark, or bright and dark, or neither bright nor dark dharmas?”

“No, Subhūti.”

“Lord, if they have not apprehended them, how have they designated hell, the animal world, and the world of Yama; how have they designated gods and humans; how have they designated stream enterer; how have they designated once-returner, non-returner, worthy one, and pratyekabuddha; how have they designated bodhisattva; and how have they designated tathāgata, worthy one, perfect complete buddha?”

“Subhūti, do these beings know that phenomena are empty of their own marks?”

“No, Lord.”

“Subhūti, if these beings were thus to know ‘phenomena are empty of their own marks,’ bodhisattva great beings would not set out to fully awaken to unsurpassed, perfect, complete awakening, and would not, when they have entered into unsurpassed, perfect, complete awakening, free beings from the three terrible forms of life, up to the five forms of life in saṃsāra. But, Subhūti, these beings do not thus know that phenomena are empty of their own marks, and because they do not know, they are not freed from the three terrible forms of life, and the five forms of life in saṃsāra. Therefore, bodhisattva great beings, having heard from those lord buddhas that ‘phenomena are empty of their own marks,’ set out to fully awaken to unsurpassed, perfect, complete awakening for the sake of beings.

“These phenomena do not exist in the way that foolish ordinary people have settled down on them. These beings, having themselves constructed unreal phenomena and apprehended them, have the perception of a being where there is no being, the perception of form where there is no form, the perception of feeling…, perception…, volitional factors…, and consciousness where there is no consciousness, up to the perception of compounded and uncompounded dharmas where there are no compounded and uncompounded dharmas. With their minds distorted because of the error of constructing the unreal, they accumulate physical, verbal, and mental karma and are not freed from the five forms of life in saṃsāra. Therefore, bodhisattva great beings, having included all wholesome dharmas in the practice of the perfection of wisdom, pursue the bodhisattva practice, and pursuing that fully awaken to unsurpassed, perfect, complete awakening. Having fully awakened to unsurpassed, perfect, complete awakening, they free beings from the five forms of life in saṃsāra.”

The Lord having said that, venerable Subhūti asked him, “Lord, if all phenomena are empty of their own marks, well then, how do bodhisattva great beings fully awaken to unsurpassed, perfect, complete awakening and free beings from the five forms of life in saṃsāra?”

Venerable Subhūti having asked that, the Lord said to him, “Subhūti, here bodhisattva great beings, having fully awakened to unsurpassed, perfect, complete awakening, expound, explain, set forth, and establish the four noble truths—suffering, the origination of suffering, the cessation of suffering, and the path leading to the cessation of suffering. Included in these four noble truths are all the wholesome dharmas on the side of awakening, as many as there are, and through those dharmas on the side of awakening there is a presentation of the Three Jewels (which three?—these, namely, the Buddha Jewel, Dharma Jewel, and Saṅgha Jewel), and when the Three Jewels have appeared, beings are freed from the five forms of life in saṃsāra.”

Then venerable Subhūti asked the Lord, “Lord, will beings pass into complete nirvāṇa on account of knowing suffering or will they pass into complete nirvāṇa on account of suffering? Will they come to be in complete nirvāṇa on account of knowing the origination of suffering or will they come to be in complete nirvāṇa on account of the origination of suffering? Will they come to be in complete nirvāṇa on account of knowing the cessation of suffering or will they come to be in complete nirvāṇa on account of the cessation of suffering? Will they come to be in complete nirvāṇa on account of knowing the path leading to the cessation of suffering or will they come to be in complete nirvāṇa on account of the path leading to the cessation of suffering?”

Venerable Subhūti having asked that, the Lord said to him, “Subhūti, they will not pass into complete nirvāṇa on account of knowing suffering, nor on account of suffering; not on account of knowing the origination of suffering, nor on account of the origination of suffering; not on account of knowing the cessation of suffering, nor on account of the cessation of suffering; and they will not pass into complete nirvāṇa on account of knowing the path leading to the cessation of suffering nor on account of the path leading to the cessation of suffering. Subhūti, I have said that they will pass into complete nirvāṇa on account of the sameness of the noble truths—they will not pass into complete nirvāṇa on account of knowing suffering, nor on account of suffering; not on account of knowing the origination of suffering, nor on account of the origination of suffering; not on account of knowing the cessation of suffering, nor on account of the cessation of suffering; and not on account of knowing the path leading to the cessation of suffering nor on account of the path leading to the cessation of suffering.”

The Lord having said that, venerable Subhūti asked him, “Lord, what is the sameness of the four noble truths?”

“Subhūti,” he replied, “it is where there is no knowledge of suffering and no suffering; where there is no knowledge of the origination of suffering and no origination of suffering; where there is no knowledge of the cessation of suffering and no cessation of suffering; and where there is no knowledge of the path leading to the cessation of suffering and no path leading to the cessation of suffering.

“Furthermore, Subhūti, whether the tathāgatas arise or whether the tathāgatas do not arise, the suchness of the four noble truths, their unmistaken suchness and unaltered suchness, the true nature of dharmas, the certification of dharmas, and the establishment of dharmas remain as just the dharma-constituent. Such a dharma-constituent is a natural state not robbed of mindfulness, the true nature of dharmas that is never ruined. Bodhisattva great beings practicing the perfection of wisdom practice the truths in order to awaken, one way or the other, to the truths.”

The Lord having said that, venerable Subhūti asked him, “Lord, how do bodhisattva great beings practicing the perfection of wisdom practice in order to awaken to the truths? How, while practicing, do they awaken to the truths? How, having awakened, do they practice for suchness? And how, having practiced, do they not fall to the śrāvaka level, not fall to the pratyekabuddha level, but rather enter into the secure state of a bodhisattva?”

Venerable Subhūti having asked that, the Lord said to him, “Subhūti, there is no dharma the limit of which bodhisattva great beings do not see. When they do not see any dharma, they then do not apprehend it. Not apprehending anything they see that all dharmas are empty; they see that all those dharmas included in the truths or not included in the truths are empty. Seeing like that, they enter into the secure state of a bodhisattva and stand at the Gotra level. Those bodhisattvas standing at the Gotra level do not fall onto a peak—a peak that, when fallen on, would be a fall to the śrāvaka level or the pratyekabuddha level.

“Standing at the Gotra level, those bodhisattva great beings generate the four concentrations, and generate the four immeasurables and the four formless absorptions. Standing at that calm abiding level they make a detailed examination of all dharmas and also realize the four noble truths. Even though they comprehend suffering, they do not produce any thought with suffering as its objective support; they abandon the origination of suffering, but they do not produce any thought with origination as its objective support; they actualize the cessation of suffering, but they do not produce any thought with cessation as its objective support; they cultivate the path to the cessation of suffering, but they do not produce any thought with the path as its objective support. On the contrary, with a thought inclined to awakening, they see all dharmas for what they really are.”

“Lord, what are ‘all dharmas as they really are’?”

“Subhūti, it is seeing all dharmas as emptiness.”

“Lord, how do they see all dharmas as empty?”

“Subhūti, they see like this—that all dharmas are empty of their own marks. But even though they see with such an insight that ‘all dharmas are empty,’ they still do not see an intrinsic nature on which they might stand and fully awaken to awakening; they see no such intrinsic nature at all.”

“In that case, Lord, is awakening a nonexistent thing?”

“Exactly so, Subhūti, exactly so! It is exactly as you say! Awakening is a nonexistent thing. It has not been made by buddhas, it has not been made by pratyekabuddhas, it has not been made by worthy ones, and it has not been made by those bodhisattva great beings who are practicing for it. On the contrary, it is because beings do not know and do not see things as they really are that bodhisattva great beings practicing the perfection of wisdom with skillful means teach the doctrine to beings.”