Looking For a Debate

Vādatthikasutta

Looking For a Debate

Vādatthikasutta

EN
“Mendicants, take any mendicant who truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’. An ascetic or brahmin might come from the east, west, north, or south wanting to debate, seeking a debate, thinking: ‘I’ll refute their doctrine!’ It’s simply impossible for them to legitimately make that mendicant shake or rock or tremble.
PL
“Yo hi koci, bhikkhave, bhikkhu ‘idaṁ dukkhan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti …pe… ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti, puratthimāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā vādatthiko vādagavesī: ‘vādamassa āropessāmī’ti, taṁ vata sahadhammena saṅkampessati vā sampakampessati vā sampacālessati vāti—netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.
PL
Pacchimāya cepi disāya …pe… uttarāya cepi disāya …pe… dakkhiṇāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā vādatthiko vādagavesī: ‘vādamassa āropessāmī’ti, taṁ vata sahadhammena saṅkampessati vā sampakampessati vā sampacālessati vāti—netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.
EN
Suppose there was a stone post, sixteen feet long. Eight feet were buried underground, and eight above ground. Even if violent storms were to blow up out of the east, the west, the north, and the south, they couldn’t make it shake or rock or tremble.
PL
Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, silāyūpo soḷasa kukkuko. Tassassu aṭṭha kukku heṭṭhā nemaṅgamā, aṭṭha kukku uparinemassa. Puratthimāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya bhusā vātavuṭṭhi, neva saṅkampeyya na sampakampeyya na sampacāleyya; pacchimāya cepi disāya …pe… uttarāya cepi disāya …pe… dakkhiṇāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya bhusā vātavuṭṭhi, neva saṅkampeyya na sampakampeyya na sampacāleyya.
EN
Why is that? It’s because that stone post is firmly embedded, with deep foundations. In the same way, take any mendicant who truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’. An ascetic or brahmin might come from the east, west, north, or south wanting to debate, seeking a debate, thinking: ‘I’ll refute their doctrine!’ It’s simply impossible for them to legitimately make that mendicant shake or rock or tremble.
PL
Taṁ kissa hetu? Gambhīrattā, bhikkhave, nemassa sunikhātattā silāyūpassa. Evameva kho, bhikkhave, yo hi koci bhikkhu ‘idaṁ dukkhan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti …pe… ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti; puratthimāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā vādatthiko vādagavesī ‘vādamassa āropessāmī’ti, taṁ vata sahadhammena saṅkampessati vā sampakampessati vā sampacālessati vāti—netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.
EN
Why is that?
PL
Pacchimāya cepi disāya …pe… uttarāya cepi disāya …pe… dakkhiṇāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā vādatthiko vādagavesī: ‘vādamassa āropessāmī’ti, taṁ vata sahadhammena saṅkampessati vā sampakampessati vā sampacālessati vāti—netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati. Taṁ kissa hetu?
EN
It’s because they have clearly seen the four noble truths. What four? The noble truths of suffering, its origin, its cessation, and the path. That’s why you should practice meditation …”
PL
Sudiṭṭhattā, bhikkhave, catunnaṁ ariyasaccānaṁ. Katamesaṁ catunnaṁ? Dukkhassa ariyasaccassa …pe… dukkhanirodhagāminiyā paṭipadāya ariyasaccassa. Tasmātiha, bhikkhave, ‘idaṁ dukkhan’ti yogo karaṇīyo …pe… ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti yogo karaṇīyo”ti.
PL
Dasamaṁ. Sīsapāvanavaggo catuttho. Tassuddānaṁ Sīsapā khadiro daṇḍo,
PL
celā sattisatena ca; Pāṇā sūriyūpamā dvedhā, indakhīlo ca vādinoti.

Pāli root text and English translation by Bhikkhu Sujato from SuttaCentral (https://suttacentral.net), CC0.

Source