At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof. Now at that time Venerable Anurādha was staying not far from the Buddha in a wilderness hut. Then several wanderers of other religions went up to Venerable Anurādha and exchanged greetings with him.
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, they sat down to one side and said to him: “Reverend Anurādha, when a Realized One is describing a realized one—a supreme person, highest of people, who has reached the highest point—they describe them in these four ways:
After death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists.” When they said this, Venerable Anurādha said to those wanderers: “Reverends, when a Realized One is describing a realized one—a supreme person, highest of people, who has reached the highest point—they describe them other than these four ways:
PL
‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā”ti? Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā anurādho te aññatitthiye paribbājake etadavoca: “yo so āvuso tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto taṁ tathāgato aññatra imehi catūhi ṭhānehi paññāpayamāno paññāpeti:
EN
After death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists.” When he said this, the wanderers said to him: “This mendicant must be junior, recently gone forth, or else a foolish, incompetent senior mendicant.”
PL
‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā”ti. Evaṁ vutte, aññatitthiyā paribbājakā āyasmantaṁ anurādhaṁ etadavocuṁ: “so cāyaṁ bhikkhu navo bhavissati acirapabbajito, thero vā pana bālo abyatto”ti.
EN
Then, after rebuking Venerable Anurādha by calling him “junior” and “foolish”, the wanderers rose from their seats and left. Soon after they had left, Anurādha thought: “If those wanderers were to inquire further, how should I answer them so as to repeat what the Buddha has said, and not misrepresent him with an untruth? How should I explain in line with his teaching, so that there would be no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism?”
PL
Atha kho aññatitthiyā paribbājakā āyasmantaṁ anurādhaṁ navavādena ca bālavādena ca apasādetvā uṭṭhāyāsanā pakkamiṁsu. Atha kho āyasmato anurādhassa acirapakkantesu tesu aññatitthiyesu paribbājakesu etadahosi: “sace kho maṁ te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā uttariṁ pañhaṁ puccheyyuṁ. Kathaṁ byākaramāno nu khvāhaṁ tesaṁ aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ vuttavādī ceva bhagavato assaṁ, na ca bhagavantaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyyaṁ, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyyaṁ, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānuvādo gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyā”ti?
EN
Then Venerable Anurādha went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and told him all that had happened.
‘yo so, āvuso anurādha, tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto taṁ tathāgato imesu catūsu ṭhānesu paññāpayamāno paññāpeti— hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, na hoti … hoti ca na ca hoti, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā’”ti? Evaṁ vuttāhaṁ, bhante, te aññatitthiye paribbājake etadavocaṁ:
PL
“yo so, āvuso, tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto, taṁ tathāgato aññatra imehi catūhi ṭhānehi paññāpayamāno paññāpeti: ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vāti. Evaṁ vutte, bhante, te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā maṁ etadavocuṁ:
PL
‘so cāyaṁ bhikkhu na vo bhavissati acirapabbajito thero vā pana bālo abyatto’ti. Atha kho maṁ, bhante, te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā navavādena ca bālavādena ca apasādetvā uṭṭhāyāsanā pakkamiṁsu. Tassa mayhaṁ, bhante, acirapakkantesu tesu aññatitthiyesu paribbājakesu etadahosi: ‘sace kho maṁ te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā uttariṁ pañhaṁ puccheyyuṁ.
EN
“What do you think, Anurādha? Is form permanent or impermanent?”
PL
Kathaṁ byākaramāno nu khvāhaṁ tesaṁ aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ vuttavādī ceva bhagavato assaṁ, na ca bhagavantaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyyaṁ, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyyaṁ, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānuvādo gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyā’”ti? “Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, anurādha, rūpaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā”ti?
EN
“Impermanent, sir.” “But if it’s impermanent, is it suffering or happiness?” “Suffering, sir.” “But if it’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, is it fit to be regarded thus:
Seeing this … They understand: ‘… there is nothing further for this place.’ What do you think, Anurādha? Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to form?”
“No, sir.” “Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies apart from form?” “No, sir.” “Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies in relation to feeling?” …
“What do you think, Anurādha? Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to one who has form?” … “… feeling?” … “… perception?” … “… choices?” … “… consciousness?” “No, sir.” “What do you think, Anurādha?
Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to that one who is without form?” … “… feeling?” … “… perception?” … “… choices?” … “… consciousness?” “No, sir.” “In that case, Anurādha, since a realized one is not found by you as a genuine fact in this very life, is it cogent for you to declare: ‘Reverends, when a Realized One is describing a realized one—a supreme person, highest of people, who has reached the highest point—they describe them other than these four ways:
PL
ayaṁ so arūpī … avedano … asaññī … asaṅkhāro … aviññāṇo tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti? “No hetaṁ, bhante”. “Ettha ca te, anurādha, diṭṭheva dhamme saccato thetato tathāgate anupalabbhiyamāne kallaṁ nu te taṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ: ‘yo so, āvuso, tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto taṁ tathāgato aññatra imehi catūhi ṭhānehi paññāpayamāno paññāpeti—
EN
After death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists’?” “No, sir.” “Good, good, Anurādha! In the past, as today, what I describe is suffering and the cessation of suffering.”
PL
hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā … na hoti … hoti ca na ca hoti … neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā’”ti? “No hetaṁ, bhante”. “Sādhu sādhu, anurādha. Pubbe cāhaṁ, anurādha, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññapemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhan”ti.
At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof. Now at that time Venerable Anurādha was staying not far from the Buddha in a wilderness hut. Then several wanderers of other religions went up to Venerable Anurādha and exchanged greetings with him.
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, they sat down to one side and said to him: “Reverend Anurādha, when a Realized One is describing a realized one—a supreme person, highest of people, who has reached the highest point—they describe them in these four ways:
After death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists.” When they said this, Venerable Anurādha said to those wanderers: “Reverends, when a Realized One is describing a realized one—a supreme person, highest of people, who has reached the highest point—they describe them other than these four ways:
PL
‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā”ti? Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā anurādho te aññatitthiye paribbājake etadavoca: “yo so āvuso tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto taṁ tathāgato aññatra imehi catūhi ṭhānehi paññāpayamāno paññāpeti:
EN
After death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists.” When he said this, the wanderers said to him: “This mendicant must be junior, recently gone forth, or else a foolish, incompetent senior mendicant.”
PL
‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā”ti. Evaṁ vutte, aññatitthiyā paribbājakā āyasmantaṁ anurādhaṁ etadavocuṁ: “so cāyaṁ bhikkhu navo bhavissati acirapabbajito, thero vā pana bālo abyatto”ti.
EN
Then, after rebuking Venerable Anurādha by calling him “junior” and “foolish”, the wanderers rose from their seats and left. Soon after they had left, Anurādha thought: “If those wanderers were to inquire further, how should I answer them so as to repeat what the Buddha has said, and not misrepresent him with an untruth? How should I explain in line with his teaching, so that there would be no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism?”
PL
Atha kho aññatitthiyā paribbājakā āyasmantaṁ anurādhaṁ navavādena ca bālavādena ca apasādetvā uṭṭhāyāsanā pakkamiṁsu. Atha kho āyasmato anurādhassa acirapakkantesu tesu aññatitthiyesu paribbājakesu etadahosi: “sace kho maṁ te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā uttariṁ pañhaṁ puccheyyuṁ. Kathaṁ byākaramāno nu khvāhaṁ tesaṁ aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ vuttavādī ceva bhagavato assaṁ, na ca bhagavantaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyyaṁ, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyyaṁ, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānuvādo gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyā”ti?
EN
Then Venerable Anurādha went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and told him all that had happened.
‘yo so, āvuso anurādha, tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto taṁ tathāgato imesu catūsu ṭhānesu paññāpayamāno paññāpeti— hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, na hoti … hoti ca na ca hoti, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā’”ti? Evaṁ vuttāhaṁ, bhante, te aññatitthiye paribbājake etadavocaṁ:
PL
“yo so, āvuso, tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto, taṁ tathāgato aññatra imehi catūhi ṭhānehi paññāpayamāno paññāpeti: ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vāti. Evaṁ vutte, bhante, te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā maṁ etadavocuṁ:
PL
‘so cāyaṁ bhikkhu na vo bhavissati acirapabbajito thero vā pana bālo abyatto’ti. Atha kho maṁ, bhante, te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā navavādena ca bālavādena ca apasādetvā uṭṭhāyāsanā pakkamiṁsu. Tassa mayhaṁ, bhante, acirapakkantesu tesu aññatitthiyesu paribbājakesu etadahosi: ‘sace kho maṁ te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā uttariṁ pañhaṁ puccheyyuṁ.
EN
“What do you think, Anurādha? Is form permanent or impermanent?”
PL
Kathaṁ byākaramāno nu khvāhaṁ tesaṁ aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ vuttavādī ceva bhagavato assaṁ, na ca bhagavantaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyyaṁ, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyyaṁ, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānuvādo gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyā’”ti? “Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, anurādha, rūpaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā”ti?
EN
“Impermanent, sir.” “But if it’s impermanent, is it suffering or happiness?” “Suffering, sir.” “But if it’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, is it fit to be regarded thus:
Seeing this … They understand: ‘… there is nothing further for this place.’ What do you think, Anurādha? Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to form?”
“No, sir.” “Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies apart from form?” “No, sir.” “Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies in relation to feeling?” …
“What do you think, Anurādha? Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to one who has form?” … “… feeling?” … “… perception?” … “… choices?” … “… consciousness?” “No, sir.” “What do you think, Anurādha?
Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to that one who is without form?” … “… feeling?” … “… perception?” … “… choices?” … “… consciousness?” “No, sir.” “In that case, Anurādha, since a realized one is not found by you as a genuine fact in this very life, is it cogent for you to declare: ‘Reverends, when a Realized One is describing a realized one—a supreme person, highest of people, who has reached the highest point—they describe them other than these four ways:
PL
ayaṁ so arūpī … avedano … asaññī … asaṅkhāro … aviññāṇo tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti? “No hetaṁ, bhante”. “Ettha ca te, anurādha, diṭṭheva dhamme saccato thetato tathāgate anupalabbhiyamāne kallaṁ nu te taṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ: ‘yo so, āvuso, tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto taṁ tathāgato aññatra imehi catūhi ṭhānehi paññāpayamāno paññāpeti—
EN
After death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists’?” “No, sir.” “Good, good, Anurādha! In the past, as today, what I describe is suffering and the cessation of suffering.”
PL
hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā … na hoti … hoti ca na ca hoti … neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā’”ti? “No hetaṁ, bhante”. “Sādhu sādhu, anurādha. Pubbe cāhaṁ, anurādha, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññapemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhan”ti.
Sutraya